In the News

[unforth]

The article that this particular quote comes from is actually not terribly interesting, but nonetheless, it is proof of something I've been asserting without evidence for ages:

"...in New York,...a new study from the Center for an Urban Future, a nonprofit research group in Manhattan, estimates it takes $123,322 to enjoy the same middle-class life as someone earning $50,000 in Houston..." (The ellipses eliminate an because clause that wasn't relevant to the use I was making of the quote).

Vindicated! I make considerably less than $123k, for the record. ;) Man, I feel so much better about this now...

Anyway, as usual there is little of interest in the Sunday paper...

Comments

[ultimabaka.livejournal.com]

I saw this exact same article on Friday. I wasn't surprised either. I came to the conclusion, however, that being "middle class" in New York City means something radically different than being "middle class" in Houston. For example, you don't need a car here, so the money you would be spending on that in the ghetto of Houston gets spent on higher rent here, and so on. And I might be wrong, but does having an absurdly fancy TV only make you middle clase nowadays in the city?

Because I seem to only be middle class. Which is curious, even though it doesn't change how I live my life.

[unforth.livejournal.com]

You're middle class. And so am I. According to another article I read today, the average household in America has 2.7 people but 2.9 TVs - so no, having an insanely ridiculous TV (and an awesome sound system to go with it) does not in anyway promote you from the middle class. :)

I agree that being middle class in one place is not necessarily the same as being middle class in another, though, and I suspect that that 123k figure includes - as you mention - having a car, for example, because what they're really computing is what 50k gets you in Houston vs. how much that would cost in NYC - which would definitely include a car.

[ultimabaka.livejournal.com]

Damnit and this whole time I thought I'd just sorta skipped that step :P. As someone who makes dramatically more than that, I figured I would be better off than I am. So much for that theory :P

[schenker28.livejournal.com]

I always assumed that was obvious -- it's crazy expensive to survive there!

The follow-up question I'm interested in is whether this cost-of-living difference is accounted for in the salaries paid to people in NYC vs. other cities. For example, if I have essentially the same job in Bloomington vs. NYC, is the salary indexed so that I have the same lifestyle?

From looking around at software engineers jobs before I started grad school, it seemed to me that I would be effectively making less if I moved to the city - I'd get a much larger salary for very similar jobs, but it wasn't even larger enough to actually equalize. I suppose it depends on the industry and particular company... I've heard this from other people in software, incidentally.

[unforth.livejournal.com]

Not really, unfortunately. For example, a job that might pay around $6 in Bloomington pays about $7.50 in New York City - clearly not a significant enough improvement to really do any good. Anyone who works in public service jobs also gets a bit shafted (such as teachers). Private industry, on the other hand, varies widely - however it's not as great a difference as one would hope. That said, pay is higher in the city, and of course it's a place where such jobs are available - which is not the case in Indiana, for the most part. I think that it's really not enough to actually equalize - my personal experience of NYC is that things - especially housing - are scaled towards a two-income family or towards roommate situations, and that the expectation/assumption is that many people who work in Manhattan will flat out not possibly be able to afford to live there. Just look at me - I've had to make a lot of sacrifices, not least of which being the ownership of a car, in order to live on the island of Manhattan...when I made the concession to move to 171st, I saved a lot of money, entirely because that neighborhood is so far removed from the places where most people work.

In a word (or three), it's a mess. ;)

[corneredangel.livejournal.com]

I've actually thought about this a lot in connection with seeing all the academic library jobs advertised for what, in a place like I dunno, Fort Worth, would be perfectly respectable wages...that to my NYC mind seem absolutely pitiful. In most of the rest of the US, coming out of grad school into $50K is pretty good - in New York, someone who is in their late 20's and making that...well, they sure as hell need to keep their expectations/hopes/dreams in check!

[corneredangel.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think this matters for particular types of jobs. If you're in finance or law, yeah, making 150K (...or vastly more) your first year in New York is totally not uncommon, when the same job in Indy or Cincinnati or something would pay half as much. For anything more liberal art-ish (...or hard tecchie, for that matter, though), I don't think it'd be as big of a difference.